Your Codex is Broken!!!!!

This is a rant, apologies in advance! Also watch out for the wall of text spam!

As a Grey Knight player I hear this quite a bit, I also tend to say it quite a bit, generally to any army I play that has a sneaky trick, or where I am aiming to wind up my opponents (yes Fin, Paul & Tom I am looking at you guys).

However I had it said to me at a recent tournament after I had tabled a Space Wolf player. The list I was using is below:

Madrak, 4 Ghost Knights (1 Daemonhammer, 3 Force Halberds)
10 Strike Knights, 2 Psycannons, Rhino w/ Hunter Killer
5 Terminators  w/Psycannon, Daemonhammer, 4 Halberds
10 Interceptors w/ 7 Halberds, Daemonhammer, Incinerator x 2, Psybolt
10 Interceptors w/ 2 Psycannons, Psybolt
Dreadknight w/ Personnal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator
Dreadknight w/ Personnal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator

Note the complete lack of most of the stuff people hate about the Grey Knight codex, no Psyriflemen Dreads, no Psybacks, no Henchmen Spam, no Stormraven Spam, no Xenos Inquisitor Spam, or Deathcult Assassins, no Draigowing or Paladins… in fact from what the net seems to say nothing that’s actually any good from the Codex!

My Opponent had 1st turn and a decent number of AP3 shots in his army. He decided (as he went first) to move his Landraider with 15 Blood Claws & a Wolf Priest only 6” instead of 12”. This meant he couldn’t charge my Dreadknight that was setup well within 18” of it (intentionally I admit). His two drop pods arrived with 5 Grey hunters, 1 Wolf Guard & a Rune Priest each at opposite ends of my army, both next to an Interceptor Squad.

In his shooting phase he put all his AP3 rockets (all 14 from two Long Fang Packs) into 1 of my Dreadknights. His Small units of Grey hunters also chose to shoot at the Dreadknights as well.
In my following turn, my unscathed Interceptors wiped out both units of Grey Hunters and Rune Priests, my Psycannons popped the Landraider, before the Dreadknight charged the Blood Claws and killed the Wolf Priest. With Madrak turning up behind his Long Fangs the game was effectively over.

All my opponent could say was that he lost because my Codex is overpowered and broken. Now I am all for Banter, but not excuses.

The army I have listed above for myself is Terrible against Dark Eldar & Grey Knight armies with Stomravens (4 Mindstrikes = 1 Dead Dreadknight). I know this before I leave the house, its terrible because I haven’t designed it to deal with these armies. My choice, not that either codex is over powered or broken.

My opponent, didn’t get the Charge with his Blood Claws, which he should have, and probably would have been able to on either my Terminators (which would have been a mistake by me), or my Dreadknight. Dreadknights are not easy to kill, but you throw 60 attacks at one, plus some power weapons and its going to die, especially if you shoot some AP2 weaponry at it.
Before that he should have put his 14 Rockets into one of my 10 man Interceptors squads, cover save or no, you are going to whittle them down, force panic checks and cause problems for me.

The Drop Pods, they should have come down on the same side at the same target, again so you can do maximum damage!

My frustration is that its players like this that give ANY codex a bad reputation of being overpowered or unbeatable.

I got tabled in the same tournament by a Grey Knight codex that had the perfect counter to me, however I managed to wipe out his troops, and push him to the very edge of the game, potentially forcing a draw. I made him play for his win, and I made some HUGE! Glaring errors. Had I not the game would have turned out very differently, but it gives me ideas of what to do in the future.

The Aim of the Article… well that’s simple. Don’t let anyone tell you any codex is more or less powerful than any of the others. All four of the Grey Knights Armies (well all 5 of them) would have struggled to deal with a Tau gunline, none of us drew that player though. Tau make mincemeat of Dreads & Stormravens, and they have AP1 & 2 in abundance. Tau are viewed as a weak codex, yet they can do a very good job of beating people if played by the right player.

The Grey Knight codex certainly has its problems, most notably that nearly every list in existence tends to have Psychotoke Grenades in there somewhere, and very few leave home without Psyriflemen Dreads.

When you do lose, or do get flattened by your opponent don’t blame the codex, ask what could you change about your list / tactics to change the result of the game. Surely that’s one of the fun parts of the games? Wondering what you could have done differently!


Pickman said…
Err... 60 attacks against a DK will cause on average 0,83333 wounds. He was right not to charge you.
Also dealing with a Tau gunline?
Teleport a DK near it and laugh when the opponent can't drop it.
The opponent has a lot of AP2 weapons? Then move the interceptor squad too and do so when your terminators deepstrike.
Next turn you're in CC. And Taus just love CC.
The problem with GK codex is that it hasn't weaknesses. Tell me something that the GKs don't have the answer in their codex.
Many other codices have problems against a particular setup.
Also some of their choices are multi-purpose (because they cost so much point-wise). This means that it's hard to understand how to approach such a battle. And that's huge for the not-pro player (90% of the WH40k world).
I don't speak due to hate against GKs. I like them. Also I still have to lose to them with my Necrons (both old and new codex) so I guess that they're not OP. Simply they're hard to play against because they're not a "standard" army.
In fact I think that psyrifleman dreads are just a way to make it easier for your opponent, because he knows how you will move and act.
Kraggi said…
I appreciate the way that averages work, but if we work on averages then on the three Stat tests I have taken on my Dreadknights, all of which needed anything but a 6 to pass and I failed all of them.

For me the point is if you are not going to force your opponent to at least roll dice then you are giving up an advantage by allowing them to dictate what happens.

The unit of Blood Claws actually managed to kill the Dreadknight because before they could have charged it, it had lost 2 wounds.

I am not denying at all that the Grey Knights have a lot of answers to enemy tactics in their Codex, I just try to avoid using the ones that people see time and time again.

The tournament I met the player in was a competitive tournament (so I was told) so I feel that I can expect to see people who are willing to play in that enviroment.

I have generally found that the Tau lists I play against can drop a Dreadknight in one turn from shooting, which is why i take two, but even then a unit of Kroot have charged and killed a Dreadknight in 1 turn.

If you dont force me to roll the dice, and leave my manourvable units free then you are playing to my strengths not your own.

The aim of the article is to make people think about how they played their army, rather than just stating 'Your Codex is broken' although this point may have been lost in the rant lol.

I have played two armies that were perfect counters to what I used, but in both occaisions the enemy played the armies in such a way that allowed me to win convincingly. After they both said it was my codex... when their army list was a damn good counter to what I had.

The game I mentioned above had the player Drop two Drop pods at different sections of my army, when combining them would be much better, 14 rockets will tank an interceptor squad, or at the very least reduce it to near ineffectiveness (its only made of marines after all).

Instead my opponent used the wrong strategy against me then blamed my codex (something I have seen a lot, and something I have done in the past myself!).
Drax said…
I had a game against a double grey knights force at doubles. I took a Vulkan list and my team mate took Blood Angels. Neither of our forces really capitalised on the standard template for our force, though mine was the nearest to doing so. On the flip side, our opponents did everything they could to max the cheese. On paper, we didn't stand a chance.

However, through some terrible tactical decisions and a great deal more cunning by us, the only two models still alive in the GK force at the end of turn 3, let alone the end of the game were two immobilised reiflemen that were facing the wrong way.

It really is 'how you use it' I guess!
Kraggi said…
I wish there was a like option for your comment Drax lol.

That is the point I was trying to make.

The Codex you use certainly helps your chances in a game, but I find that the player behind the army makes far more of a difference.

I have pulled victories out of defeat due to lucky dice (as have we all) and because my opponent made a mistake more often that I want to think about.

My first game in the aforementioned tournament was against a Grey Knight player and I could have forced a draw had I thought about my strategy a bit more, instead I fed him a kill point which was a mistake I should never have made... but I lost because of how I played the game, not because the Codex of the player is broken (although we were both using a GK codex so that may slightly invalidate my arguement!).
Rusty Nail said…
If the Interceptors are in the open then 14 krak missiles should toast them, if they are in cover then 14 Frag missiles will do the same - make them roll armour saves, lots of saves.

@Pickman I have two all comers lists that worry Kraggis Grey Knights a Space pups list that includes Lascannons rather than the obligatory missile launchers, and a DE list that puts out a stupid amount of shots, both poisoned and AP2.
The DE one would struggle against most net GK lists whereas the Space pups would have a field day with average luck.
I don't think any codex is broken, some are much easier to win with than other though and I would rank the Grey Knights, IG and Space pups as the top 3 in that category.
As the Tau player Kraggi mentioned, please teleport your dreadknight in front of my gun line. While you're at it, bring your interceptors too. With reasonably average luck, I'll wipe your interceptors in one turn of shooting, (them first 'cause they can multi assault, but the Dreadknight can't) block your Dreadknight with my Kroot, and finish him off next turn - and most competent Tau generals with the right tools would do the same - and that's if I was going second.

The point of this comment is not to brag (I'm a pretty average Tau general - still very much on the learning curve), but to agree with Kraggi. Not what you have, it's how you use it. Point of interest - the recent UKGT, possibly the most competitive tourni in the UK was won by a first rate Tau general.

Kraggi said…
Well EYIG my Dreadknight has learnt his lesson and will no longer ignore Kroot after my last encounter with them.

Tau lists scare me, and I freely admit its because of the army list I build, I dont have the ability to kill you at range so I have to get close and hope that 1 turn of shooting isnt enough.

Or figure out some other sneaky and dastardly tactic.